Monday, November 10, 2008

Retribution NOW

[From this post down, all of my blog work having to do with The Infidel / Pigman is now only available in my print collection:


PROPIGANDA : Drawing the Line Against Jihad

But I've kept all of the original post comments ]

33 comments:

Damien said...

Bosch,

Pig man looks angry, more angry than usually. Did he fail to stop a terrorist attack or did the Jihadist do something else to tick him off?

revereridesagain said...

Bosch, I'm not sure what the proprieties are of linking to SOLO, but I want to recommend the post "We the Living: A Personal Statement" by jmaurone about those Objectivists (and others) who are trying to downplay the significance of the Obama election. I've been hearing the same line from far too many people around me -- that we must hope for the best, wish Obama well, try to help him be a good President, that our lives won't really change, that anything is better than Bush, that somebody has to Do Something about the "Depression", that the American People wouldn't support a socialist president...

Why should I take Obama's word that he is not a socialist when he has already proven himself to be a lying weasel? When all the evidence points to him being a lifelong Marxist who signed on to Black Liberation Theology and joined an openly racist church and who is close friends with pro-Islamists -- am I supposed to believe this is all meaningless and he presents no real threat to my liberty?

Why the hell do we still think It Can't Happen Here? Because we have a Constitution? Because we still have freedom of speech? How long until the return of the Fairness Doctrine begins to erode that? Because we have private property? And if the Obama administration nationalizes everyone's retirement accounts? Perhaps the defenders of the Constitution will save us from all that. They haven't done too well this past year, however. They can't even get some clown running for President of the United States to cough up his birth certificate to prove his eligibility for the office.

Are Atlas Shrugged and We the Living "just novels"?

One night back in 1967 or '68 I was at NBI (Natanial Brandon Institute) in the basement of the Empire State Building, listening to a talk by Leonard Peikoff. He finished by recalling that on the night before Ayn Rand left the Soviet Union forever, someone who would remain there asked her to tell America that the USSR was a huge graveyard and they were all dying slowly. "She has kept that promise" Leonard said. I was sitting near the center aisle and as we were applauding I saw movement to my right... someone was walking down the aisle... it was Rand, and she was holding her hands up to Leonard up on the podium. But she could not speak because of the tears coursing down her face. She walked all the way down to the front and they spoke quietly together for a few minutes.

She had already lived through what may be facing us if the wrong combination of ideology and events make the election of Obama the tipping point in our slide into a socialist state. Rand knew what that meant. In her mind's eye she was seeing the faces around her that night, she knew the future that they faced and which she was escaping. Had she seen our future as well?

Damien said...
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Damien said...

revereridesagain,

All hope is not lost. We are still not a dictatorship. If we can muster a strong enough opposition, we maybe able to stop Obama from getting everything single thing he wants. We can survive this.

No offense, but "Atlas Shrugged" and "We the Living" are just novels. I have never read either of them, but one of my pet peeves is when people go around talking about Atlas Shrugged, (or any other work of fiction for that matter) as if the events in the story were actual historical events. It makes it look like they live in a fantasy world. Regardless of their merit, why should we expect a work of fiction radically change someone's view of the world, when nothing in the real world will?

No offense to Bosch, but I don't think that his "Infidel" novel will radically change a single person either, but it may inspire those that already agree with it and that alone is much better than nothing. People need to see other people standing up to for what they believe in to encourage them. They need to know that they are not alone. That will do a lot of good as well

revereridesagain said...

Something that very much concerns me is that I don't think we're going to have the luxury of all this upheaval minus the component of violence forever. The warnings about another round of attacks from the jihadists are becoming more frequent, specific, and creditable. A 9/11 on a nuclear level is going to shock a lot of people out of their denial and euphoria.

I'm an admitted disaster junkie and I've read a lot about natural and other types of calamities, and what we are seeing now is actually very common behavior by people in the face of an approaching but not well defined danger. It's why people stand around staring at volcanos, firestorms, and tsunamis until it suddenly dawns on them that it is too late to run. I fear that some time within the next 6 months or so we are going to find ourselves in that kind of situation and that is when all hell will break loose, politically and otherwise.

Damien said...

revereridesagain,

I can pretty much Guarantee that no one here or on the Infidel Bloggers Alliance wants another attack.

Damien said...

revereridesagain,

At the very least you can take comfort in the fact that there are some people out there that are genuinely doing there best to prevent one.

revereridesagain said...

It's not an issue of what we want or don't want. Again, this sounds like the "we hope (against all indications) that Obama will be a good president and we wish him well". (From what I've seen so far the man is right with about the same frequency as a stopped clock.) But yes, there are many working behind the scenes to prevent another attack and the Islamists may get a big surprise if they try it. Or, possibly, before they try it. But there is no evading the fact that it is a dangerous situation.

Damien said...

revereridesagain,

Yes it is a bad situation, but I think we have to make the best of it. There's an old saying, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Damien,

Yes, Pigman is particularly outraged in this shot, and is in the middle of returning terror.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Reveridesagain,

Thanks for the well thought out post and especially for the great anecdote on seeing Rand in person, man, I would have loved to have had the opportunity to shake her hand and speak with her.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Damien,

It's the Ideas in Rand's novels which matter above all and that they're delivered in fiction form doesn't make them any less potent, and they have the ability to inspire individuals far more than actual events in the world. I assume you don't feel the same about religious books. And the Muslim killers sure as hell don't see the Koran as just a book. Ideas, it's ideas that move man, for good or ill. Now, I know you follow someone who's known as a critic of Rand, and I've always found them to deliberately get her wrong in order to trash her, so your prejudging the power of Rand's novels is to be expected. Ideas, it's the ideas in them that will save the world.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Damien wrote:

Of course no one wants an attack, what an unnecessary thing to challenge, as if RRA suggested otherwise, but we likely will get hit again, especially now. With Obama in the white house, the enemy will likely try to go stealth jihad for as long as they can until their bloodlust reminds them that nothing short of death and destruction will do against us. We're headed for a terrible few years and whatever we do know about Obama is bad, but imagine, just imagine what we Don't know.

Godfrey of Utah said...

I almost felt my heart stop when I heard that Obama won. Bush may not have done all that could have been done to annihilate the Islamos, but in the 8 years since 9/11, there has not been a successful attack by Al-Qaida or any other Koranimals on us. Yet people are not thanking him for that much, it is like kicking your guard dog in the stomach for doing what he was supposed to. I do not care what anyone on the right, left or center (if one exists) says about him. If Bush did not finish the job, he at least laid the ground work for its conclusion. I just wish a better man like Bobby Jindal or Vijay Kumar were succeeding him. We must continue to speak out against the evils of Islam, Socialism, and Tyranny.

Pigman looks awesome, as usual. Retribution, Reckoning, and Restitution. Mercy cannot rob Justice. Pigman to me is a symbol of Justice.

Damien said...

Bosch,

Its not just Rand's novels, but all fictional works in general. I don't mean to offend you, or anyone on this. I just have a hard time imagining why I, or for that matter anyone else should be expected to change their entire world view based on a make believe. I thought this way, long before I read anything written by Nyquist, or any of Rand's other critics. That said, I never said a story couldn't be inspirational, I just think its a bad idea to live your life based someone's fictional world. Even If Atlas Shrugged happens to mirror reality in some ways, in other ways, it probably contradicts it.

Off course Jihadist don't see the Koran as just a book, but that's because they believe its contents. They think it is the literal word of Allah. They think it is God's blue print for how they should live.

Even if I loved Atlas Shrugged, I'd feel a bit uneasy If I came across someone who thought John Galt was a real person and that everything in the novel literally happened.

I have actually started writing my own novel, long before 9/11. But I never finished it, although I do intend to do so eventually. If people went around basing their lives on my story, It would make me feel horrible, even if there is some truth or moral lesson I want to get across by writing it. Anyway that's unlikely to happen, since its far more of a fantasy than anything written by Rand. Off course some people sort of treat Star Trek like it was real, and my story is a Sci-Fi Novel, but I often feel like those people must not have much to look forward to in the real world.

As for your Infidel novel, it will probably help encourage those that already have somewhat of a good idea what is going on. However, I doubt that it will have a significant effect on anyone who's view on the subject is one hundred eighty degrees from yours. I doubt that you will get someone who sees Islam as a religion of Peace, and the people running, Jihad Watch and the Infidel Bloggers Alliance as being run by bigots to suddenly start to agree with you. I'd suspect that people like that won't even get past the first ten or fifteen pages anyone. That's not to say that I don't support what you're doing. You can still to a lot of good, by letting others who already think the way we do, know that they are not alone. People need to stand up to the Jihadists, including artists and story tellers. But I think that even you would feel uncomfortable if a bunch of people starting believing Pig Man was real (other than Jihadists of course)

Damien said...
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Damien said...

Bosch,

I'm not denying that there are going to be bad times ahead, I just think we have to make the best of it. All hope is not lost.

Damien said...

Bosch,

As for my own view of the nature and value of Ideas, its somewhat different than that of either Nyquist's or Rand's. I personally think Rand gives ideas too much power, while Nyquist gives them too little.

Damien said...

Here's a video Critical of Obama, that you guys will probably agree with. RevolutionOfCG maybe exaggerating somewhat, but he makes a few valid points that need to be made.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Godfrey,

Thank you, and re: Bush and our perceived ingratitude to his efforts on our behalf, that's his job, and he didn't do it well at all. He has fought a half assed war against our enemies and now he will leave office with Iran free to get nukes. He said that he'd never allow that and here he is, allowing it. And leaving the job to someone who will do an even worse job than him. The problem with him and many other politicians is that they're not Doing their job, and instead are getting involved with things they have no business getting involved in. They go Big on Us and small on the enemy. And Obama will do everything But his job, as he finds new ways to creep into our lives while not fighting the enemy, which will make us vulnerable to another attack.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Damien,

I don't know anyone who thinks that John Galt or Pigman are real. Why do you feel a need to go to a place that is so incredibly unlikely to make your point, one that I find strange. Now, there Are people who take mythological books literally, such as religionists and their particular holy books, and yet you have nothing to say about them.

Any Rand's work, in the end, is her philosophy Objectivism, and her fiction books show her philosophy in human action in a way that could never be done through non-fiction. In a way where you see her philosophy in human form with all of its consequences. The Infidel/Pigman is a way for me to show what should have happened after 9/11 when the world's superpower, its moral leader, gets attacked by savages. It's a way to show, outside of reality, what could have and should have been done.

Damien said...

Bosch,

If you notice, I have said something about the religious fundamentalists taking their holy text literally. I told you one of the reasons why I think Jihadist make such a big deal out the Koran. They think its non fiction. They think its an accurate portrayal of history and the way the world works.

My example of someone thinking Pigman or John Galt was real, may have been something unlikely, but I was just using it as a means to illustrate a point. That point was the danger of taking a story too seriously.

I won't deny that you are doing a good thing by writing your Infidel novel. In fact I'm still glad that you are doing so. The anti-Jihad Movement needs inspiration. I just don't think we should expect the story to drastically change the thinking of a huge number of people.

Bosch Fawstin said...

You assume again that I think my story will:
'drastically change the thinking of a huge number of people'.

I've never said that or thought that, that's not my style of thinking at all. You almost always start with an assumption and then impose it on others in order to argue against it and you really have to stop doing that. I'm writing and drawing the graphic novel that I've been wanting to read since 9/11 and I think it's a different way to take on Islam and its Jihad, one that hasn't been out there yet, and doing so in a pop medium may get those who wouldn't necessarily read a non-fiction book on the subject interested in it, and while being entertained, also being engaged enough where they question their assumptions about the subject, which may lead them to find out firsthand if the conclusions I've made are true.

Damien said...

Bosch,

I'm sorry, I must be misinterpreting your thinking again. Its a bad habit.

Bosch Fawstin said...

And to avoid any further confusion, let me repeat with appropriate emphasis that I write that readers MAY go further to find out the truth for themselves, because there's no knowledge like first hand knowledge.

Damien said...

Bosch,

There's no knowledge like first hand knowledge, agreed.

Bosch Fawstin said...

Damien,

You're here, I appreciate it, and you're always involved with the fight in your own way. I only ask that you really consider what I've actually written before you wrongly attribute things to me. If you have a question, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. I try to be as clear as I can in my work, but there are times when the written word says it better and more clearly.

Damien said...

Bosch,

By the way, did you see the video I linked too?

Bosch Fawstin said...

I did, it was ok.

Damien said...

Bosch,

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

Anonymous said...

Godfrey wrote: Bush may not have done all that could have been done but ... there has not been a successful attack ... yet people are not thanking him for that much.

Bosch replied: ... that's his job, and he didn't do it well at all ...

Something feels odd about this war lately, but I can't quite put my finger on it. More and more I'm having difficulty believing we in the West are really as collectively and monumentally stupid as the recent deluge of negative news stories and reports would indicate. Outrageous reports that seem more and more unbelievable every single day - offset by just a smattering of hopefulness - just enough to keep utter hopelessness at bay.

Then I get drunk and bizarre questions pop into my head. Bits and pieces of a giant puzzle whirl around linking up and unlinking in novel ways.

I punder the Verch of Duh Swarid sometimes and how utterly inscrutable that enigma is at the end of the day. I try to imagine how many centuries it would take for a boulder to learn how to tie its own damn shoes. My son heads over to the zoo and in forty seconds flat a little boyd poops on his hat. Idiot math tells me the US population is split roughly 50/50. That's standing room only if you want to pack some 200 million enemies of one stripe or another into 800 ready and waiting holiday resorts.

Come to think of it, I'm going to thank old W right now, just in case I should die in this war. Thanks be unto you George! I suppose in a few years time we'll know one way or another all about your legacy.

Sore is defeat
More is deceit


-wackynut

Anonymous said...

ALWAYS SO STRONG, YOUR ARTWORK, BOSCH. WELL DONE, MY FRIEND.

MIKE

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