Thursday, May 22, 2014

"Extremist" Koran vs "Moderate" Koran?

A few of my other tweets along these lines:

That non-violent Muslim you know? His Koran tells him "Kill the infidels wherever u find them". That he ignores it speaks of Him, Not Islam

    • Every single Muslim's Koran tells them to "kill the infidels wherever you find them", yet those who act accordingly are said to be deviants.

      Muslims who take Islam seriously are the problem, yet we're told that we're supposed to focus on Muslims who Don't take Islam seriously.

      • Muslims who take Islam seriously are the problem, yet we're supposed to believe that Muslims who don't take Islam seriously r the solution?

        The "Moderate" Muslim's Koran is moderate, the "Extremist" Muslim's Koran is "extremist" ... & Islam means peace


Sajid said...

Modrate Muslim:

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisas). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqun (the pious)" - (V.2:2).

"And spend in the Cause of Allah (i.e. Jihad of all kinds, etc.) and do not throw yourselves into destruction (by not spending your wealth in the Cause of Allah), and do good. Truly, Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (the good-doers).” (2:190-195)

That's right. A moderate Muslim is one who reads the whole verse, in context. Since you choose to read and perpetuate only exactly what the extremist Muslim reads, I wonder that that makes you?

But then again you do have a comic to publish and you the "All Muslims are Nazis/there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim" story is probably a better to your audience.

Bosch Fawstin said...

"Moderate Muslims" tell extreme lies about Islam in order to make themselves feel better about being part of such an extremely evil religion

Bosch Fawstin said...

One more, you immoderate punk:

If there's one thing "Moderate Muslims" are immoderate about, it's telling lies about their immoderate religion.

c papen said...


Did you read the part where you annotated that the other thing required is that there be no more "disbelief?" In other words, you are ordered to fight them until they believe? Even when you're trying to gloss over the violence inherent in the religion, you still leave the tell tales behind. Forced Conversion. And if you refuse the forced conversion, what then, Sajid? Kittens and Rainbows and Lollypops? Or perhaps the odd beheading of the resisters and the odd rape here and there of their women, "taken in battle."

Bosch has you pegged.

Sajid said...

@ C. papen,

I think you are referring to this line:

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

It says, very clearly, to fight until the other party converts OR until the other party stops fighting altogether. In fact, once fighting stops, a Muslim is also responsible to accost the enemy to a place of security.

I got the information from here, which is what a moderate (and quite common) interpretation of Islam looks like.

It is quite clear to most Muslims that the verses above are mostly "rules of battle engagement" and not a guide to daily living. Many other verses quite clearly discourage superfluous violence against non-instigators.

Sajid said...

Also, this is not to disregard the many atrocities and violations regularly carried out my Muslims and Muslim nations throughout the world. However, it is quite silly and counter-productive to claim that Muslims want to "kill them wherever you find them", as, they don't.

By this simplistic representation of Islam Bosch dehumanizes the enemy in order to feed his "Pigman" war and "Muslim roulette" theories.

I much prefer the left-wing/mainstream media approach to solving real problems, a method which highlights actual social abuse and violence and agitates against those violations until they have receded.

Of course, Bosch is concerned with more political matters and that requires a different sort of rhetoric. Nevertheless, not only are his principles wrong, they are dangerous. If more people felt the way Bosch did there would be an actual real war between the United States and a manufactured enemy in the Islamic world and such a war would benefit absolutely nobody..

Bosch Fawstin said...

Chapter 9' "Verse of the Sword" -along with numerous calls for war and violence in the Koran, abrogated all of the "peaceful" passages that came before. It's called The Doctrine of Abrogation and the bottom line of the Koran, Islam and Mohammad became- and continues to this day, to be a religion of Submit or Die, whether or not Muslims like Sajid engage in jihad or not.

Here's a Muslim, Bassam Tibi, who is scrupulously honest about his religion, unlike Sajid:

"At its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. "We have sent you forth to all mankind" (Q. 34:28). If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wa) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the da’wa, is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam…

Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Qur’anic command to spread Islam as a way of peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurab (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of “opening” the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad.

Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur’an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the da’wa, are blamed for this state of war, for the da’wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it.

In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them."

But I will say this about this Sajid fellow, he is probably the most articulate Muslim who has left a comment on my blog, which likely means he is a product of the West, not of Islam, at least in terms of education. But of course, a product of the worst of the West, naturally preferring the left's view, which is the view that sees America and Islam in a way not that different than Muslims do, as in America, bad, Islam, good, A wrong, irrational view. As for saying My principles are "dangerous"? Only to the enemies of civilization.